"Swash" Buckler Saturdays: Red Circle/Archie Adventure: The Inside Story

In the mid-eighties the comics direct market was up and running--and beginning to thrive. I'm still not so sure that was a good or bad thing. It's taken me years to even be able to talk about those days at Archie Comics, which for me had such a bright and promising beginning and then became so dark and nightmarish on the business side.So, to begin, the publishers at Archie Comics came to realize that there was a viable opportunity opening up to once again present their super-hero properties (MLJ & Mighty Comics characters) to the mainstream comics readers.

The word came to me via comic book fan and publisher John Carbonaro. I had done some work for John on his independent comics for the Thunder Agents property (which he had the rights to), and we knew each other fairly well. He had tried his hand at independent publishing first, but with modest success. His idea at this stage was to get Archie Comics to publish those characters.

I am a big time Jack Kirby fan (no secret, that), so getting a shot at reviving the Simon & Kirby creations (Lancelot Strong, The Shield, and The Fly) owned by Archie Comics was very appealing. I remembered fondly in my young fan years buying the Mighty Crusaders (the "Mighty Comics" version) and having big expectations. This was in the 1965 during the "campy" Batman craze, and the stories and art were anything but what I had expected or hoped for. I was also familiar with the much older MLJ characters from my early comics fan days.

RICH BUCKLER'S back cover for The Fly #1

So John and I decided to throw in together and John set up a meeting with publisher Richard Goldwater (John Goldwater's son) at their Manhattan offices. Together John and I made a presentation with a plan to bring back The Mighty Crusaders, The Fly and The Shield, along with a separate title for Thunder Agents. Our initial offer was for both John and I to co-edit and spearhead the whole thing--since the publishers were pretty much clueless about anything "non-Archie". They were very interested in the money-making possibilities. We, on the other hand, were really just a couple of overcharged comic book fans with very little good business sense--ahh, but that's hindsight.

Sensing a somewhat golden opportunity, Goldwater was immediately receptive and played along while apparently having much bigger plans.

Subsequent developments led to John being sidelined, which I got blamed for but really had nothing to do with. Richard Goldwater did not know the comics direct market or how it worked, and for that matter didn't have a clue how to do a super-hero comic for the comics readers of that day. His partner, Michael Silberkleit, knew even less about the subject. The impression I got was that I was really Archie's expertise and credibility in the marketplace at that time.

I remember in a later meeting Richard started making flippant references to John's proposed participation in all of this, and commented: "We've got you. What do we need John for?" Like he and his partner had discussed this already and decided that John wasn't going to fit into things.

So, when I was appointed Managing Editor, John was out, and I took the heat. That sucked. After that, understandably, John became embittered. I stood up for him as best I could but they were having none of it.

The reality was that these two guys, Goldwater and Silberkleit, were playing John and me, one against the other. That was one of their favorite tactics. The other favorite was playing one editor against another (which would come later). The name of the game folks was get what they wanted, not what we wanted. The reality was that John and I were both considered expendable--we just didn't know it.

That was the deal and how it went down. No contract, nothing written down. Just a "gentleman's agreement" (hah!). Hey, what did I know about it? These guys were the publishers of squeaky clean family-friendly Archie Comics, for crying out loud. Surely they could be trusted.

At a subsequent meeting with Goldwater and Silberkleit, I was tasked with setting up everything for direct market distribution, and the publishers laid out their proposed line-up of new books (which was coincidentally, for the most part, exactly what John and I had planned). They decided to revive the Red Circle imprint (which I designed for them) for marketing purposes--and to avoid association with Archie and humor comics.

I was asked: "So, what do you need to get started?" In my boundless enthusiasm I replied: "Give me an office and a telephone, and I'll take things from there!"

Well, to be honest, I had no idea what I was in for. So I shifted into high gear and called up friends of mine, fellow comics professionals, and I started giving out assignments. That was the easy part. My extensive contacts in the industry were probably a major factor in my being hired, and I knew a lot of "heavyweights."

Believe it or not, the publishers actually were hoping to compete with Marvel and D.C. Comics. I told them that was unrealistic, but they seemed undeterred. They immediately understood that publishing comics for a non-returnable market, printing from advance orders, was a no-lose high profit proposition. If it is beginning to sound a bit like Goldwater and Silberkleit were a couple of clueless self-serving manipulative scoundrels, stay tuned--it gets worse.

John Carbonaro kept coming in to the Archie offices almost every day. I don't know how he found the energy for it. He pitched in whenever he could to help. I could tell, though, that he did this a bit grudgingly and was barely hiding his resentment. I regarded his treatment at Archie as unfair, unprofessional and even at times abusive. Neither one of us were on Archie Comics' payroll, so virtually all of the work we did to launch this publishing effort was done "on spec" (you know, promises of money later--maybe).

I don't know the details of John's dealings with them, but I was coming in nine to five six days a week, with no salary or up front money--only an official-sounding title, "Managing Editor", and promises of a royalty further on. What kept me going? Well, I was there for the creative opportunities--certainly not for fame and fortune.

My job as Managing Editor was much more than I was prepared to handle. I was determined to somehow make a good show of it anyway. Victor Gorelick was in charge of production and scheduling--he was personable, tough and exacting. As I worked closely with him, it became apparent that I was surely way over my head in the task set before me and that I needed some expert help in keeping track of everything.

Enter Robin Snyder. Robin had extensive experience as an assistant editor at D.C. Comics and to me he seemed to perfectly fit the bill. Prior to this he and I had gotten along well and I was confident that taking him on as my editorial assistant would help keep everything moving along on schedule. I was not prepared for how things would later play out, but I will say that he was very smooth and capable and professional, almost to a fault. I should have been alerted to troubled times ahead when one day he told me: "Better to go ahead and do it, and just say you're sorry later." Ominous words, considering what was to follow.

I hired Steve Austin (a friend of Robin's) as a production assistant. Then I proceeded to hire all the main talent to kick things off. Alan Weiss was a fan of Lancelot Strong, The Shield, and my first choice for that title. Jim Sherman was passionate about The Fly. John Severin was a lucky catch. I hired Steve Ditko at Robin's recommendation. Then there was Dick Ayers (one of my all-time favorites), Jack Kirby, Rudy Nebres, Adrian Gonzales, Tony Dezuniga, Alex Toth, Frank Giacoia, Ricardo Villagran, Eduardo Barreto, Brian Buniak, Gray Morrow, and Jim Steranko.

My favorite writers were Cary Burkett (on Mighty Crusaders) and Martin Greim (on Shield and Thunderbunny). The whole line-up of writing and art talent was, I thought, a comics fan's dream.

But, then again, on the creative side, the whole operation at least initially was comic fan based and initiated by professionals who were absolutely passionate about comics. Nobody was on a power trip, or ego trip. I was in comics creator heaven once again. Or so it seemed.

My friend and mentor Jim Steranko was a hard sell to the publishers. They thought he was too expensive. I thought we got the better end of the deal. Jim supplied not only brilliant artwork but also color, logo, and final printing separations!

So Red Circle had a strong showing with their first few titles (over 100,000 copies for Mighty Crusaders #1 and Fly #1). Sales were strong--in fact, they exceeded my initial expectations. We still had a tough row to hoe. I knew it wasn't going to be easy selling these characters to a mainstream audience. Not everybody who read comics would know these characters or even care about them. We had to make them care. To many readers what we were doing would be totally new.

I cautiously advised Goldwater that number one issues always do fairly well if the promotion is done right (which it was), and that they should be prepared for a drop in sales after that (which they weren't, of course).

Whether you liked the Red Circle line of books or not, what actually saw print was, I believe, the absolute best that our creative people were capable of (myself included). I'm not one of those guys who knows everything or pretends to, and I'm not always right. But the creative energy behind all of those comics was right--and it's too bad that greed and bad decision making on the publishing side brought Archie Comics' super-hero offerings to such an early demise.

It was just before Archie Comics' offices made their big move to upstate New York that some early warning signs began to appear--small indications that all was not as it appeared to be, and things were beginning to veer off course and out of my creative control. Even after the move I continued to commute (amazingly) to the offices at least two or three times per week. By that time, I had no office space and the editorial chores were divided up by what I gradually perceived to be a rather ruthless and manipulating Editor-In-Chief (Goldwater).

When it all started to come apart I was told by Victor Gorelick that all the publishers ever wanted from me was to draw Mighty Crusaders. Really? And all the rest that had preceded that moment--the title, the office, the hard work--that was just some delusion on my part? Where oh where did I get this silly notion that what I had sweated on for the last six or eight months would all be worth it somehow?

I had been totally clueless for the longest time, but things had not gone south for me without a little help from saboteurs within. I found out just how foolish my entire involvement in this project was--and, you know, it's not a pleasant thing to admit you were played for a fool. I remember that from day one I had made it clear that I hate taking meetings and "office politics". My view was that things would come together and work best if the publishers let me do what I do best and let the people I hired do what they do best. There was to be no "iron hand" ruling things, no inter office memos or secret meetings, no shenanigans--just everyone working hard and enjoying producing good comics!


Of course that was naive and hopelessly idealistic. I didn't see it coming--that once everything was organized and set in motion, I had unknowingly worked my way out of a job.


The editorial shake up that had resulted in a dividing up of editorial chores began the day I hired Bill Dubay. My actual realization that my helping him was a foolish mistake came later.


Why did I do it? I should have known better from past experience. It was actually a favor to my sister (who was married to Bill at the time).

RICH BUCKLER'S Red Circle Logo Design

She had pleaded with me to help him out, at a time when he was "down and out" financially and had run out of career opportunities. I did not, in my creative zeal, see any real problem there--surely if I helped him out, there would be no serious competition on his part and he would be thankful that his problem was solved, right? Almost immediately after Bill began to work for Archie Comics, there began to appear more indications of schisms ahead.


Well, wouldn't you know it? I didn't find out until it was too late, but it turned out that Bill and Robin were close friends and had been for years--and considered themselves my competitors. They had been in collusion all along, from what I was able to piece together. Hey, I could be wrong. Maybe the plan was not to sideline me (like what had happened earlier to John Carbonaro) and take over the editorial helm at Archie. It sure felt like that's what had happened though.


So the whole Red Circle/Archie Adventure thing inevitably turned out to be a bit of a debacle for me. The entire show was surreptitiously taken over by Robin and Dubay--and the creative direction of things was seeing a dramatic shift away from all of the groundwork I had carefully laid.

At one point, they decided to clue me in at a private meeting in Manhattan at Bill's art studio, It got ugly and confrontational at one point. Then Bill gratuitously offered to write the Mighty Crusaders title for me. He would take no pay or credit for this (and even pay for the tax on that income!). Mighty generous of him. A carefully planned takeover? Nahh, couldn't be.

RUDY NEBRES' back cover for Mighty Crusaders #3

But why, I wondered, were Robin Snyder and Steve Austin (both guys who I had hired--weren't they on my side?) standing next to him there at the time, both with grins on their faces, and both of them working for Bill and his Cartoon Factory? And why was most of the production on the books now handled out of office by the Cartoon Factory?


My comic book fan sensibility had clearly gotten the best of my business sense. I was playing with the "big boys" here, and they knew the game. What a monumental dupe I had been! I was always so buried in work that I never saw any of this coming.


Gradually I came to my senses. I had to threaten legal action to get Richard Goldwater to agree to pay for my editorial work. Shame on him. This is the guy who had told me with a straight face in one of our earliest meetings: "It's got to be fun! If it's not fun, we don't do it." What kind of fun he was referring to is anybody's guess. I was having fun until everything turned ugly.

I wonder, was it a fun idea to kill off both of my characters, Darkling (Crusaders) and Dr. Malcolm Reeves (friend of The Web), the only new characters in the Mighty Crusaders that Archie Comics didn't own? Just coincidence I guess. And as Dubay's titles got darker and more sinister and became more expensive to the company (and also started running late on the schedule), I suppose that was somebody's idea of fun.

I know that some friends who worked for me were bewildered by these developments. Some even felt betrayed. I was so aggravated and disheartened by it all that I couldn't even talk to anyone about it. Up until now they probably never had a clue as to how many internal problems there were for this company.


Sure, I got a shot at being Managing Editor for a brief time--a sort of captain on a ship that was doomed from the beginning to end up crashing on the rocks, with a crew that planned to mutiny from the get go. This was ultimately a sad and disappointing detour for me, and I am sorry that so many people I worked with got jerked around and finally axed without explanation.


But, hey--who says the folks at Archie didn't have a sense of humor? They still publish Archie, right?

"Swash" Buckler Saturdays: Xenogenesis, Atlas, and Me (Updated with Original Art!)

What exactly is "Xenogenesis"? Why was that part of the concept of Demon Hunter, what was it all about, and where did that idea come from?

Wasn't "Xenogenesis" James Cameron's first film? Well, yes. But that was four or five years after I introduced the concept in fictional form. Cameron's version deals with robots. And then there was the Alien vs. Predator Xenogenesis and the X-Men stuff, but that's all post 2000. Most, if not all, of Cameron's ideas are borrowed from other people's work anyway (just ask Harlan Ellison)--and we're going back a bit further here to the 1970's.

For me, "Xenogenesis" meant a supernatural "New World Order"--the engineered darkly occult "birth" into our physical universe of an intelligent and evil race of beings bent on subjugating all of mankind. In short, a demon race. Does that sound like an overarching conspiracy theory or a classic paranoid fantasy? Well, it was. Shades of Philip K. Dick!

In entertainment form I was expounding the theory that our world is run by a vast satanic system--and it does, at times, seem these days like that is what is happening in our "real" world. Some of the ideas I explored like secret societies, inter-dimensional travel, occult control of government and perceived reality (mind control) and demon possession on a grand scale-- these were not exactly things in our "cultural meme" in those days. Nowadays it's on the public mind frequently and it's all available in books and all over the Internet.

I knew this idea was pretty "out there" and beyond even the most unconventional ideas in mainstream comics and movies of the time. I don't know, maybe that's why it didn't "fly" the first time around (or slightly afterward, in the Marvel version of the character "Devil-Slayer").

Was the Demon Hunter character derivative of Dr. Strange or Ghost Rider? I don't think so--he was never meant to be anything like them. I only got a small "creative window" to present my concept to a mainstream audience. But for the record, nobody at Atlas Comics had asked me to create an occult costumed character that could compete with Marvel's characters. There was no commercially minded editor who asked me to dial up a new version of the old to pump up Atlas' sales. If there was, he certainly would not have been looking for this.

My collaborator/writer, David Kraft, wrote the dialogue and narration from my story notes. We were both Marvel guys and fans of the rock band Blue Oyster Cult, but I think between the two of us, I was the only one who understood the alchemical and Freemasonic origins of much of their material. Who knows how much of the occult meanings were actually understood by the songwriters in the band? That's anybody's guess.

The whole book was plotted and drawn by me with finished pencil pages produced before the final "script" was written (the "Marvel Method"). I don't think Larry Lieber, or anybody at the Atlas offices, thought anything about the book other than that it looked "cool"--nobody understood much of it, and I remember Jeff Rovin hated it. I can't imagine Jeff being too crazy about the "Man Monster" character that Tony Isabella and I did for Atlas either.

Art credits have me as the inker, and overall that was so, but I had some uncredited inking assistance from Aubrey Bradford on much of the work. There was a bit of a deadline crunch and in order to get the book out on time I asked early on for some inking help from a few other artists--Frank Giacoia and P. Craig Russell inked a few pages.

 

It's Ironic that Atlas was in such a hurry to get the book out. I think they only had one slot open for one new book, so even getting that was a bit of luck. My timing at Atlas, though, was unfortunate. All of my work for Larry Lieber was done in the latter part of Atlas Comics' short publishing life (roughly one year). It was Larry who hired me and he had a lot of faith in me.

The real enticement was not the cover work (I got to work on most of their titles) but the promise that I could create something new with no creative constraints. Who could turn that down? This kind of opportunity was almost entirely unheard of at the time and certainly extremely rare for an artist/writer as young as I was at the time (I was twenty six).

Like Deathlok, the premise for Demon Hunter was probably ahead of it's time. Being the first with an idea or character or concept is not always rewarding or gratifying. The popular versions that come later are usually the ones that people remember or identify as "cool" or original.

I might sound to some like I am beating my own drum here. Maybe I am, just a little. But I've always thought of new concepts or ideas of mine as things that have a life of their own which actually arrive at my "address". It's what I call a "Eureka moment". When that happens, it's almost a magical phenomena--and definitely not something to keep to yourself.

The comics business today is very different from the 70's, and even the 80's. There is such a frustrating gauntlet of corporate structure and nonsense between the creator and the money now, that it's an almost nonsensical bureaucratic process that beleaguers and wears you down--and that's to just get something creative to the right person who, maybe, can help make it happen.

Think about it. All it really takes is one person in a position of power to have faith in you and let you do what you do best. How many times these days does that happen?

(Note from Ol' Groove: Here are the covers Rich rapped about. Enjoy!)